Bad Thread

[sschroed2]

I've been sewing some full jacket back designs (54K STITCHES) and was doing well. This morning befoe starting, changed 4 needles, oiled the hook, put in new bobbin and was off and running again. First color went down great, second color nohing but trouble. Immediately thought the needle position was wrong so changed it. Went ok for about 10k, then bad again. Went through this 3 more times, then changed bobbin. That didn't help either. Decided to clean the red pinch rollers and the feed roller and grease them ofcourse for that needle. Still didn't help. Finally I thought change thread spool. Amazing No More problem! This happened to me on another color a couple of days ago. Both spools had about 30% of the spool left. I'm wondering if this is the norm or if anyone else has had this problem. These spools are part of the original ones that came with my machine from Melco. That's a lot of thread going to waste on a 5,000 meter spool. The thread kep fraying and would get down to just fuzz before it would break. The machine wouldn't tell me if broke soon enough so I had to keep watching and stop it myself when I noticed the fraying. Very frustrating day. I'm just wondering if the new spools I just got will do the same thing.

[Shuffletown Embroidery]

I had a similar problem with brand new Madeira rayon spools (not cones) a couple of weeks ago. If there was a shelf life issue, it would have been at Madeira.
At the time my theory was that number of winds per inch increases as the thread nears the core and this causes more spirals as the thread feeds off the spool. I was running @ 1100 spm, 45- 55K stitches without trims. I tried all the standard remedies, as you did. The only things I didn't try was slowing down the machine and lengthening the spool holder. When I changed the thread to a new spool, it ran perfectly.
I'd be interested in hearing the opinions of those who are more experienced.

Mary

[Aaron]

Ok, here is my 2 cents. Thread does get old and will not run as well as it gets older. The time that it lasts will vary depending on the thread. Sometimes when I get down to the end of a spool I will notice more thread breaks which is probably related to the way its coming off the almost empty cone. If I am having lots of thread breaks and changing the needle doesn't help (if I had been already running the design sucessfully) I will change out the thread to see if it helps. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.

In the past we used to spray problem spools with silicone spray which helps to lubricate the thread. This is not recommended on the AMAYA because of the advanced thread feed technology. ANother trick I have used is to put problem threads in the freezer. Cold puts some strength back into old or weak thread and can help. The silicone spray actually sprays out cold so the spray will both lubricate and make the thread cold to regain strength but again not recommended on AMAYA's.

I store most of my extra boxes of thread outside when it is cooler weather. I move it inside to the coolest place I can find during the summer.

Another factor that can be related to this is humidity. In the morning and evening we have our heater set to come on a little hotter so when dad gets up in the morning or at night the upstairs is not so cold for him but this extra heat in the mornings can cause more thread breaks because of the humidity change.

You may get one of those digital thermometers that have the humidity on them and take a look at where the humidity is at in your room both when the machines are running good and when they are breaking thread to see if humidity is a factor in your thread breaks. Most people either don't know how much humidity effects sewing or they often overlook that as a possible problem.

[oldkush]

Just to clear up a confused message I had posted earlier ... moving the thread further from the machine was not something that was done by the Amaya owner all the time. From what I understand, he would do this when a spool was getting closer to empty. I think his reasoning was that the longer the distance the thread had to travel, the more more likely the "kinks" would be worked out before they got to the machine. Don't know what brand of thread he was using. Has anyone else done this on their Amaya [or any other machine] and if so, did it help with thread breakage ?


We use the thread on our spools right to the end [or as close as the design will allow] and have no problem with increased thread breakage or fraying.

Different brands of thread, different machines, machine settings, humidity, thread storage methods, temperatures, etc. all have the potential to effect how the thread performs.

We do not have an Amaya so can't speak from personal experience but I once had an Amaya owner tell me that by moving the thread spool further from the machine, they had less problems with breakage. Perhaps this was coincidence or maybe there is some value to his solution ????

Bob

[ January 13, 2007, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: oldkush ]

[sschroed2]

Thank you to everyone. I have added a humidifier to the room and hope it helps, I having it running 24/7. I also went to Madiera today and bought a couple of spools from them to test. They don't seem to fray as badly as Melco's thread. When the Madiera thread breaks, it breaks, rather than unraveling for a few hundred stitches and then breaking.
Sue Schroeder

[sschroed2]

Ah, the saga continues! I am using poly thread, so humitidy is not an issue I guess. Knew and stranger things are starting to happen. Now the area I was having problems with (the large fill) is working fine. But the border around that fill is messing up frequently. It's a satin stitch border around 1/8". It goes fine for aprrox 6 inches across the bottom and then starts skipping stitches, goes a little farther and then starts having thread raveling and breaks. I'm only about 50% into this spool of thread. Madiera thread is not an exact color match so I need to finish with the Melco thread. Once after I fixed a ravelled thread, when I restarted the machine moved over about 1/8" and started sewing the border totally in the wrong place. So to the techs out there, do you think it's time I called Melco for help?
I've managed to sew 6 acceptable jackets 2 of which I will have to manually touch up to make acceptable, 1 complete throw away and have 9 to go. How is it that the same design can sew out different everytime?
Sue Schroeder

[Russell Silva]

Is you presser foot set right and consistant hooping is a must for a consistant sew out.

[signman]

Heres a quick thing to check...it was brought up last month also...
I thought of it as soon as you mentioned JACKETS...
If the jacket is hanging OFF THE TABLE, the weight of the jacket itself is going to pull that hoop sideways while sewing-moving the needle as it goes through the material and into the needle plate.
Voila-instant thread break or 'fray' as the needle rubs the thread against the plate.
If your hooping is consistent, needles are new and aligned, thread is running right, bobbin is set right, then look at the jacket. Perhaps you set one jacket 'on' the table, all the sleeves up under the needle head and not hanging-then the next jacket maybe the sleeves drap over or the excess jacket is hanging down in front-this weight is the culprit.
Make sure every jacket is completly supported ON the table (base), not hanging off the edge. This is the unknown variable-the jacket is fighting back.
I do NOT recommend this-but if you ever put your finger against a hoop while sewing you would see how little pressure it takes to move that hoop in the process. Don't do it-you can damage stuff. BUT, with everything shut off, hoop up a scrap of material (so you can see it) and bring the needle down to center it, like aligning the needle plate...and then just gently push the hoop-you will see the material move against the needle. This is what the jacket can do-and because it is heavier material, it will PULL that needle sideways.

[GF]

I also have had numerous fraying issues with the poly thread from Melco. However, I rotated my needle ever-so-slightly so that the groove is favored to the right of center (just a hair or less) bringing the eye of the needle ever-so-slightly to the right but almost centered. In addition, for dense stitches like the border you described, I slow the speed to 1150 and it runs beautifully. Hope I didn't just jinx myself by saying so . . . good luck. I know how frustrating thread breaks/fraying can be.

Question though . . . probably related. Sometimes the thread seems to just get yanked from the needle causing a thread break error. Any advice on this one?

[Rod or Sharon]

Increasing the "inch stitch count" can help in this area if it is happening often. The inch count, is the starting stitches when the Amaya first starts to sew before going to full sewing speed. That will give it more time to pick up the bobbin thread.

Also adjusting the " trim" tail lenght to "long" can help. That will give more of the top thread slack a chance to tie on to the bobbin thread.
Rod Springer
Melco tech & trainer

[Rod or Sharon]

Signman made a good point about how easy it is to move the hoop. This applies to not only a downward force on the hoop but it applies also to an upward force.

I have mentioned this before but when doing jackets and bunching the sleeves and excess coat material up on the table top...Carhart coats are the worst....be careful not to " raise " the hoop arms. If you do the grabber blade will slip under the spring hold-down clip on one of the hoop arms during a trace and if that happens it is a guarantee it will pull your needle case loose from the machine.

A situation like I have described is operator error and as it is not a defect associated with machine parts, would not be classified as a warranty repair.

Rod Springer
Melco tech & trainer

[Aaron]

Rod,

What inching stitch count do you suggest. I have these pullouts all the time on my XT's but not on the Reds. Default is set at 5. I set my XT's to 8 to see if it helps but thought you might have a good number to start with?

[sschroed2]

I think the consistency problem maybe the wait of the jacket. I have been letting the jacket hang over the edge. I've done this because previously I had clothing items tucked underneath on the table and somehow it got pushed up and grabbed another part of the garment and ruined the clothing by stitching another part to it. I will try taking the weight off this morning and see if that helps.

As for the fraying. I have changed needle positions to everything from straight to the 20% right. Constantly check pressure foot height and bobbin tensions. Last night it would sew over 30k in stitches and then start acting up. Ive been running my speed at 850. Had it at 800 then bumped it to 850 and it did better for quite awhile.

Thanks for everyones suggestions, it has helped.
Sue schroeder

[signman]

Another hint...after you have hooped the jacket, always do a trace...every jacket, everytime. I slide my hand in underneath BELOW the bobbin snout...so if there is a sleeve or liner hung up under the hoop, I can feel it immediately.
After sewing through hoods on sweats and liners on jackets, instant scrap pile...it is well worth the 30 seconds to do a trace and feel for material catching or folding.
And a quick check for needle burr-with the tip of your fingernail, slide down the end of the needle-don't even have to taket the thread out. Do it couple of times as you move around the needle tip. If you feel or hear a 'click', you know the tip is bent (a burr) and time to replace it. Only takes ONE jacket to pull that hoop sideways and the needle hits the plate or rotating part underneath...and there's your burr.
Good luck!

[Rod or Sharon]

If you have the inching count up already then I would suggest that it may be a calibration issue. This may be an issue that you need to document with Melco. Calibration is not a difficult thing to do but it is critical that it be done correctly. The trimming function is a matter of timing and it must all be in sync to operate properly.

Other things that will definitely affect the "pull out syndrom" is having the exit point of the "tie-off" at the wrong place--especially on lettering. For some reason, the XT's like the exit point on some designs to be located at other than the very end of a column and then they will trim properly.

I believe it has a lot to do with the style of tie-off used and the filtering of short stitches by the software. If you have very short stitches in the tie-off and the software deletes them because they are too short then it leaves a kind of missed stitch condition at the start of the trim...causing slack in the thread and the selector/trimmer then do their part but the thread is not where it is supposed to be for them to do their job properly.....clear as mud...eh?

Rod Springer
Melco Tech..........