Outbid

[Custom Threads]

A customer brought in 25 windshirts and wanted a logo embroidered on the left chest. The logo was about 2800 stitches. She had them priced for $4.50 per shirt from another shop.

When the clothing was not purchased through me I thought this was really low. I would have charged 8.00/logo with a 10 percent discount for having over 24 items.

Am I out of line???

[levelbest]

I might have done $5. Depends on how bad you want the business. If there was potential in the account, I might have even matched it since the stitch count is so low. Also would depend if I could do the log myself or needed to ship it out. If I had to ship it out for digitizing, no way. If it was a matter of a simple logo or text, yes.

Sometimes when someone does that to me and business is slow, I tell them (with a smile) that I will do it for that price if they promise to take 10 of my business cards and hand them out to 10 of their friends.

[Steve]

I won't touch customer issued items PERIOD!
I have seen my parents struggle with the wierdest things people would bring them. People go buy junk at Wal-Mart, K-Mart, flea markets, or some other discount store that sells crappy shirts that just won't embroider well. Then you get blamed because the embroidery just doesn't look good.
Think about this, you could knock it out in less than 3 hours for $112.50 at $4.50 each. Like John said, depends on how bad you want the work.

[signman]

I get a minimum of $5 just to add a name on goods I supply, $10 minimum for 'customer supplied' goods no matter what. You didn't make a profit on the item, and $4.50 each isn't really going to cover your overhead for the time. If you are hooping them, I'd figure 10-15 minutes per item-that's 5-6 per hour on one head machine. $22.50-$27 for an hours work, less thread, backing, etc.
That's not going to cover what the true cost of running the machine is! (previous posts, several of us have gone over how to figure an 'hourly' rate-average is around $40 per 'active' hour of use).
If you have a couple machines, okay-your overhead is less per machine hour-and you could crank them out-by Steve's figures I'd say he plans on 8-9 per hour, two heads I bet!
Slimline clamp would speed you up-but 3,000 stitches is still 3 minutes average sew time no matter what.
ANY time a customer comes in and says 'I can get this done at XYZ shop for $4.50' I tell them straight out-then WHY didn't you have them do it? And usually it is a 'price shopper'-looking for the best cheapest bargain-and you will never see them again...OR they won't tell you-the 'other' guy has a $25 or $50 'logo fee' or something that jacks the cost up-OR his price really was $4.50 ONLY IF HE SUPPLIED THE SHIRTS. I have a competitor that used to do this-he would advertise ball caps (screened or embroidered) for $4 a hat...and then get so bogged down the race car drivers had to wait 2-3 months to get them-long after their season was over. Don't fall for it! Why should YOU give away YOUR time and profit just because someone ELSE does? I prefer to LET THEM take the lowball accounts-and every year-I see another 'competitor' go out of business. I'm in tax trouble now-because last year I refused to do ANY price games-and my gross sales DOUBLED!!!! And we never had a break-busy all the time-and at least 2 competitors went out of business. Even another sign shop is now farming out HIS digital printing to me-because my machine is better and faster than his.
If you have the multiple heads, and can hoop fast and accurately-well, if the customer is worth it- its a judgement call. We've all done something the same-for a good customer. I am doing Kiwanis polo shirts now-and I add the name for $3 I think, their logo (10,000 stitches) for $5.00- BUT I am making another $15 just for profit on the shirt! So I am still making my money and they are perfectly happy.
Your $8.00 with discount for quantity sounds perfect-I'd say you figured it at $5.00 hooping per shirt, $3.00 for embroidery-and the discount helps a big order. For that price, I'd do it-but for $4.50? Not worth wasting my time with only one machine.

[levelbest]

I am goign to disagree here... and here's why.

For those of you WITH overhead of a shop - yeah, I can see it might not be worth it. But for those of us with two heads that might not be doing anything and with the potential to add another client/clients and spread the word about the business - it might well be worth doing.

I would not normally go that low, but you have to evaluate the circumstances and make clear to the client, what your normal price is and that you are doing this as a "favor" to them. Then suggest next time they buy their garments from you and send them out the door with 2-3 catalogs and a bunch of business cards.

[signman]

Don't forget-we 'professional embroidery people' now have competition
from
every spare bedroom seamstress-even my MOTHER has a fancy dancy sewing
machine that 'embroiders'....sure, no size changing, no custom logo,
limited fonts
for lettering-BUT she and her lady friends stay busy doing
'embroidery' for their
friends and family...to them- $4.50 to name a shirt would be $4.50
more than they
make watching Oprah all day!
So, you never know where that quote comes from!
Roland

[levelbest]

Originally posted by signman:
Don't forget-we 'professional embroidery people' now have competition
from
every spare bedroom seamstress-even my MOTHER has a fancy dancy sewing
machine that 'embroiders'....sure, no size changing, no custom logo,
limited fonts
for lettering-BUT she and her lady friends stay busy doing
'embroidery' for their
friends and family...to them- $4.50 to name a shirt would be $4.50
more than they
make watching Oprah all day!
So, you never know where that quote comes from!
Roland

Tis true - we have a lady on our street that bought a home machine and immediately thought she could take on the world. Guess who ended up actually doing the job. Us.

BTW, Roland wins the prize for what I believe is the first mention of OPRAH! on the list

[Custom Threads]

Thank you for all the information on "outbid". From your comments I have decided I will stick to my pricing! If I was supplying the shirts that would be a different story! I don't want to get into "price wars" but yet I don't want to price myself out of business. Sometimes it seems to be a slim line!

[signman]

John, you raise good valid points-if you have 2 heads, lets not say they are sitting idle-we're all working 12 hour days, right? LOL but with 2 heads your own labor is more efficient and therefor you can charge less. But, with over 25 years behind me in screenprinting and commercial sales for several other companies....I have learned that 'doing a favor' can come back to haunt you! Now, not to say I don't do that...a former landlord that was very good to us, held rent checks for months when it got tight and never complained-is now in Kiwanis...and anytime he comes around looking for 'a favor'- I do it-without hesitation. Why? Because he makes SURE the other business men in his club KNOW we are doing a deal-and he sends them our way with more business for full price. And they know it coming through the door-they are not getting the 'club' discount. But a NEW customer coming through the door-with 'the other guy gave me a $4.50 quote'...well, if I meet that price-I can never ask that customer to pay full price again-because he'll just tell me 'the other guy' will give him the deal price. So what did I gain? Nothing...when I did do this type of 'favor'...they sent in friends that expected the SAME price deal. So, you do have to stop and think-what is the REAL possibility that I will benefit from lowballing this order? Is it for a good cause, is it for a good customer? If its a good customer, why didn't he buy the shirts from me? If it's for a club or group-have they ever given me a chance to do business with them-or is their 'regular' supplier unwilling to cut a deal? (yes, this is typical-I see it all the time-we get offered the 'lowball deal, or can you donate this or that?-while the same group will give their 'regular' guy a $2,000 order for something we could do! As I mentioned earlier-I just flat out stopped doing anything to meet someone else's 'quote' price-and over the last year I have doubled gross sales and kept busy-while watching several competitor go under because they couldn't survive on lowball jobs. If I had 2 or 3 heads, sure-I'd lower my prices...I bought a new digital printer/cutter a year ago-and dropped my banner and sign prices because my production time is cut in half or more...and I'm so busy I can turn away some orders. Same works with multi heads for sewing...but don't get trapped by trying to 'do a favor' when it really translates to 'lowball just to keep the other guy from getting it'.

[signman]

you know, I got long winded on this because it hit a sore point...
but I never did ask...what did she say about 'LOGO CHARGE' from the other shop? Is that why she came to you? Was she quoted $150 or something to 'digitize' her logo? I've seen charges like that for simple stuff. Quote a lowball 'sewing' price, but make it up in 'setup' costs like digitizing.
Even if you do the digitizing in Design Shop, it is going to take time-an hour is worth $40-50 for you...can't do it for free!

[Custom Threads]

The customer had her own shirts and a digitized file already...so there were no digitizing fees. I think the quote was based on stitch count as it was a rather small stitch count for a logo. I usually use a flat rate for logos because people don't understand stitch count very well and I win some and lose some but mostly $8.00 logo covers it fairly well.

[signman]

Aha! so she already had an embroidery shop-to get the file...and decided to go price shopping-so much for loyalty! That type of customer isn't the one I would want to hang on to...if they are going to go penny pinching and jump to a new supplier for a lower price-then you know that 'quality and service' mean nothing to them-and they'll do the same to you.
You do it for $4.25, next time she'll tell you to beat that since the other guy will go to $4.00!
And what happens if you screw up a shirt-how do you get a replacement? Will the flea market have more? LOL...
I've even had people bring in teeshirts that were screenprinted-and wanted me to REMOVE the design and print a new one on it-because they changed the name or something!
Last week, contractor came in with 10 uniform shirts-he changed companies-and was upset when I told him it would at least $10 for me to REMOVE the original stitching, and then restitch his new name! He thought I'd pull all that old stitching and a patch off for nothing!

[Steve]

Roland,
I was basing my numbers off of 700spm and 3000 stitches which is about 5 minutes each shirt, 12 shirts per hour. That would be around 2 hours, plus time for hooping-unhooping, thread breaks, etc. = 3 hours total max.
This would be one head.

[signman]

I had figured you were in that ballpark...I based mine on using regular hoops, and what our 'real' production time ends up.
Allowing for hooping time, marking up shirts with chalk for alignment point, cutting and setting backing, then trimming the shirts afterwards and removing chalk-a one person operation should be able to do an average of one item every 10 minutes. Only time I have gone faster was using the speed clamp (slimline) system, with backing and solvy coming off a 'spool' or strip-instead of individually cutting each piece for each beanie. Then I was able to do 50 beanies, about 3800 stitches-in under 3 hours. But my wife still couldn't keep up with that for snipping off thread ends and removing excess backing and solvy-so another hour or so.-realistically, I think it took 4 hours-about 12-15 per hour. But it was all 1 color thread so it went fast.
On shirts, I figure a good hour is 6-8 shirts if I have them all ready to go (marked and unbuttoned) before I start. Optimum speed, no problems, no thread breaks, easy backing removal and cleanup, then I could see 12 an hour but it has never happened. Like doing hats at 1300 spm...yeah, I did a couple...but get 1 thread break and all your time saved is down the tube. 900 spm, no thread breaks-production is faster.
Now screenprinting...THAT I can leave dust trails behind me-by hand, I've done 100 waterbased ink shirts in one hour..partially cured and stacked to go through the conveyor-which couldn't go as fast as I could. Plastisol inks- top speed, small image, right into the conveyor-50-60 an hour tops. Multi color-25 or so. Much faster than embroidery...but not as pretty!