Calibrating Center of 20.7 x 16.8 Tubular Sash Hoop

[edr]

Hi All,

I have a 14.5" x 14.5" large design that I was stitching out on the 20.7 x 16.8 hoop. On the screen, the edges of the design are near (not on top or over) the edge of the dashed area of the hoop. I did a trace, and also went to Tools/Hoop Setup.../Trace and received back the message that the "Trace was Complete, the Design fits in the hoop".

But when I did the trace on the XT, I noticed that the laser trace clearance was within 1/8" of the front of the hoop and almost 3/4" in the back (16.8" length). When the #9 needle came near the front right corner of the hoop, I heard this thump, the machine froze/stopped with the #9 needle screw on top of the inner hoop. I had to turn the XT off and on. Fortunately, the #9 needle and pressure foot still work. I don't want to risk that again and damage something.

Is the clearance in the back of the hoop wider than the front of the hoop to accommodate the pressure foot, even though the pressure foot is angled? If not, do I need create a new hoop and re-orient the hoop center to give it more clearance in the front? The V9 settings for this hoop won't let me edit the X and Y Hoop offsets.

Or should I not trust V9 and just believe the laser tracing? What are the inner hoop clearance minimums for the front and the back (wide part)? I think the maximum sewing field is less than can be stitched for the 20.7" width.

Thanks!
Ed

[Ian]

Ed, I've found that I cannot trust the trace on screen or towards the back (because of the pressor foot). You do need more clearance. Your only option would be to change the center or just increase the margin. If you have a design that's real close, you know that you can "center" the design closer to the front and still be OK. I've not messed with customizing the hoops as of yet.

[edr]

Thanks Ian. Good idea. I thought of nudging the hoop toward the back to give it more space, but then I thought if I forgot to do this the next time I stitch the design out I'd get another nick in my hoop. So to be safe, I reduced the design 2 percent to clear the hoop and carefully walked it through those stitches with the laser to assure there was "comfortable" clearance in the front of the hoop.

Thanks!
Ed

[signman]

Go into Design Shop and move the design 'down' so it isn't centered anymore, the distance you need to clear the back hoop. Save it-and now everytime you use that design-it will be towards the front automatically-and you will clear the hoop. Instead of shrinking the design...
We find a lot of this happens with the smallest hoops when we do 'pocket' area designs and don't want to waste backing-so we just figure the distance 'off center' and do that in Design Shop so we don't have to move the hoop itself.

[FME540]

Originally posted by edr:
Hi All,

I have a 14.5" x 14.5" large design that I was stitching out on the 20.7 x 16.8 hoop. On the screen, the edges of the design are near (not on top or over) the edge of the dashed area of the hoop. I did a trace, and also went to Tools/Hoop Setup.../Trace and received back the message that the "Trace was Complete, the Design fits in the hoop".

But when I did the trace on the XT, I noticed that the laser trace clearance was within 1/8" of the front of the hoop ....

Is the clearance in the back of the hoop wider than the front of the hoop to accommodate the pressure foot, even though the pressure foot is angled?...

Or should I not trust V9 and just believe the laser tracing? What are the inner hoop clearance minimums for the front and the back (wide part)? I think the maximum sewing field is less than can be stitched for the 20.7" width.

Thanks!
Ed

Ed,

There are several lines drawn on the display for any given hoop. The solid lines represent the physical hoop rings. The two dotted lines represent the hoop limit and the safe sewable area. On round hoops these are the same. On the hoops with rounded corners the dotted line with square corners is where the machine will detect a hoop limit. The inner dashed line is the safe sewable area. Sometimes these lines intersect. Always go with the innermost line to be safe.

Due to variances in hoops the best test is always do a trace and watch the laser dot. If it gets closer than 3/8", especially at the back, you want to be very careful.

The clearance is the same all the way around the hoop. On the big hoops it is about 1.2cm or nearly 1/2". On the smaller hoops it is about .9cm or about 3/8"

Maximum sewable area on the Amaya machine is 41cm wide and 40 cm tall. That translates to 16.14" by 15.75", And is only available in a full sash frame. When you're using the large tall hoops you may have to subtract as much as 1.75" from the stated hoop size or more if the design goes out to the corners.

#1 rule is to always do the trace and make sure the laser dot doesn't get too close to the hoop.

Hopefully this helps.

[edr]

Originally posted by FME540:
Maximum sewable area on the Amaya machine is 41cm wide and 40 cm tall. That translates to 16.14" by 15.75", And is only available in a full sash frame. [/QB]

Hi FME540,

I thought the 20.7 x 16.8 tubular sash frame is the largest available for the XT. Is it not a full sash frame??

In determining the maximum rectangle I could stitch in this frame, I digitized a rectangle and found out that the largest "rectangle" I could safely trace was a 14.5" x 14.5" "square". I know I can exceed a 14.5" width a very tiny bit as the hoop widens with the curvature as the pressure foot/needle meets the center of the long side (20.7" side) of the hoop. I can understand where you would get more sewing area if you are stitching the width of the shorter sides (16.8" sides) of my hoop. Hope you understand what I am saying.

May I ask is the "full sash frame" you are referring to larger than the frame I am using? If so, where can I get one? I don't know what a tubular frame is as opposed to a flat frame. Can you please explain? If the full sash frame is the same frame I am using, how are you achieving a sewing area of 16.14" x 15.75". I'd be very, very interested as many of my designs are at least 15" at its widest width.

Many thanks!
Ed

[FME540]

Originally posted by edr:

I thought the 20.7 x 16.8 tubular sash frame is the largest available for the XT. Is it not a full sash frame??

In determining the maximum rectangle I could stitch in this frame, I digitized a rectangle and found out that the largest "rectangle" I could safely trace was a 14.5" x 14.5" "square". I know I can exceed a 14.5" width a very tiny bit as the hoop widens with the curvature as the pressure foot/needle meets the center of the long side (20.7" side) of the hoop. I can understand where you would get more sewing area if you are stitching the width of the shorter sides (16.8" sides) of my hoop. Hope you understand what I am saying.

May I ask is the "full sash frame" you are referring to larger than the frame I am using? If so, where can I get one? I don't know what a tubular frame is as opposed to a flat frame. Can you please explain? If the full sash frame is the same frame I am using, how are you achieving a sewing area of 16.14" x 15.75". I'd be very, very interested as many of my designs are at least 15" at its widest width.

Many thanks!
Ed

Ed,

Sorry, I mis-spoke. I should have said that the full size is only available when you select "Full Sew Field". Unfortunately there is no available hoop that will allow using the entire field.

You are correct that the biggest hoop available is the 20.7 x 16.8 tubular sash frame. When using the tubular sash frame hoop you lose some area at the top of the hoop due to the thickness of the hoop and the clearance necessary for the pressor foot. Your experimentation finding 14.5" square sounds about right. That would translate to 300pts (1.2") lost at the top of the hoop. I would guess you could create a rectangle 15.75" wide by 14.5" tall and get it to trace.

To find out exactly how big the hoop limits are for any selected hoop do these steps.

1. Remove the hoop from the machine. (Remove the cap driver if not check limits on a cap hoop.)
2. Select the hoop you wish to check in the hoop list.
3. Hit the Center Hoop toolbar button.
4. Using the move command from the machine move up until the machine stops. The machine stops at the hoop limit in that direction.
5. Look at AOS and note down the Y position. The value is in embroidery points. We'll convert to inches in a bit.
6. Use the machine keypad to center the hoop.
7 Repeat steps 5 and 6 in all four directions.

Add the values together and divide by 254 to convert to inches. For example if checking the values for full sew field:

y values: 1500 + 2500 = 4000, 4000 / 254 = 15.7"
x values: 2050 + 2050 = 4100, 4100 / 254 = 16.14"

These are just approximate values that I pulled off the top of my head.

On the tubular sash frame I think the +Y value will be about 1375 and the -Y about -2500. You can check exactly on your machine. That way you'll know the max design size for the hoop. You should be able to get close to 16" in the X direction but will be about 14.5" in the Y direction. Be aware the limiting factor is at the upper corners of the hoop.

Let me know what you find out.

[edr]

Originally posted by FME540:
Your experimentation finding 14.5" square sounds about right. That would translate to 300pts (1.2") lost at the top of the hoop. I would guess you could create a rectangle 15.75" wide by 14.5" tall and get it to trace.

Hi FME540,

Thank you very much on taking the time to explain how to determine the maximum sewing field of each hoop. I'll try your instructions and let you know what I come up with.

However, as you may agree, the 20.7" x 16.8" is not a true rectangular hoop. It is a curved or oval rectangle, if you will. Consequently, you loose sewing field width as the inner hoop curves inward on both sides towards the corners. I determined the largest "square" sewing field to be 14.5" x 14.5". But, if you increase the width of the sewing field to let's say 15.75", you'd have to decrease the height to clear the inner hoop. In other words, if you wanted a width of 15.75", you may only have a maximum height of maybe 13" or less. I don't think you could have a true "rectangle" design that was 15.75" x 14.5". You'd crash into the hoop. I'll have to test this out and let you know what those extremes are.

Certainly, of course, you can safely sew a large design that fit within dashed inner hoop boundary line of the hoop, but it would be between an oval and a rectangle shape.

Anyway, thanks again for explaining how to determine the maximum sewing field of a hoop with your calculations. I can understand the hoop setup screen much better now.

Ed

[FME540]

Ed,

It looks like you've got a pretty good handle on the hoops. You are correct, the largest square possible is 14.5 by 14.5. Any larger square will hit the hoop. Luckily most designs have rounded corners like the hoops.

Like I said earlier, always run the trace and watch the laser.

Let me know if you have any other questions.