Tech..What should they Check?

[Freeman78_italy]

Hi,
just purchased an used XT (big red but XT ).It's a 2yrs old one and the studio that sold me before sending has requested an Official Melco tecnician to revise it.The tecnician came, i was there, and he checked and oiled only some parts.Then he tested 2 embroidery with 2 colors on 2 needles (1 and 2) and once they were completed he said the machine was ok for him.I'm a newbie on embroidery, but spent last 3 weeks testing it and backing garments, reading book and moreover trying to embroid.The machine has HEAVY thread breaks problems....i can't complete a slightly complex embroidery, it breaks thread minimum 4 times, max 16 times....a 5000 stitches took me 1hr and half to make.Also sometimes the cutter doesn't trim proerly, and had also a thread break just after the cut when it works.I'm really worried, and i called the tech asking to come again and check the machine to test it better and inspect.What do you suggest? I have pre-made embroidery that i already made in other facilities successfully and here always give some sort of problems.I changed needles and tested on piquet knit with proper backing, also on t-shirts and stronger cotton jersey.All the same.Any suggestion? Is the amaya the right choice or do i have to quit before starting because it's a normal thing? The machine has to be productive i think, and i want also to use for complex creations.I was thinking to ask the tech to change and check all the rollers and the cutter.
Thanks in advance,
Fab

[The Embroidery Authority - OLD]

Hello Fab,
I'm a tech and trainer for Melco.
Personally, I think the tech should have tested all 15 needles and not only two.
If you say you are a newbie, then I would also suspect you, the operator. Have you had a chance to have formal training on the machine from a qualified trainer?
There are many different factors that must be correct in order to embroider with success. Change just one of these factors and you could experience thread breaks.
Where do you live? I see you have "Italy" in your name. Do you live in Italy?

Ed Orantes
Melco Tech & Trainer

[The Embroidery Authority - OLD]

I meant to say 16 needles.
Not 15.
Sorry.

Ed

[Freeman78_italy]

Hi Ed,
i live in Rome [img]smile.gif[/img]
Since the machine is used i had the training from the one that sold me (which had the training when he purchased the machine).Said that we only made a few test with no complex embroidery, the hardest one was a 2 color one,and we tested 2 basic shapes and 1 color text; we tested only on a sort of support that is used to make patches, quite solid material.We had thread break, but i would say 2 times on a 2000 stitches.Now for each test i'm making i'm writing where it breaks and which needle+ all the step i take (change needle, bobbin etc.) to make a good resume.Melco Italy looks fine, they called me and told me that the machine has been inspected by their tech and was in perfect condition.Also proposed me for a training, which i would do at this stage, but before i wanted to see which problems i may encounter.The seller after i called him regarding these problems told me he had same issues but that's the reason he called the operator to inspect the machine.
I'm a bit lost and frustrated, if the machine can't be productive it would be a problem.For example i know that hooping is a very important process, and i'm thinking about buying an hooping device like hoopmaster.I also use threads from Melco, the Isacord ones.The backing i use on light material is both a cut away and/or tear away.I know that digitizing is a process that requires time, so i'm not diggin too much into making custom embroidery, i'm using digitized ones from melco service, that i already had on previous works.Btw this is a great group, i found really important info here!

[Juli in Kona]

One thing occurs to me that if you are using Melco Isacord thread then it is very old. They haven't been selling it for years. S, it might just be too old. Why don't you try using a fresh spool of embroidery thread. I am sure you can get some locally. That could be at least part of the problem.

And try using the standard actifeed. Just keep upping the number until the breaks mostly stop. Sometimes designs just don't do well with the auto actifeed.

Juli in Kona

[Freeman78_italy]

Thanks Juli for your help,
today i will try to modify the actifeed,regarding the thread i used all new ones since i thought the same reading the posts here

[Gabi Kat]

Try slowing the machine down, new needle? I find that the Organ titanium DBxK5 70/10 work best. The backing for the knit fabrics - mesh. The Actifeed for jerzee knit -4, for PQ 5. And on some shirts the solvy on top. Also make sure the "pressure foot" is set to just touch the fabric when the needle is down.
Hope this helps you.
Gabi Kat
Tucson, AZ

[Rod or Sharon]

Hi Fab,

I am also a 3rd party Melco and Trainer and have been following this post.

Here is what you need to do at this point to determine if it is a machine issue or a design issue. Just as the Melco engineers do, you must create a baseline from which to start from. Fortunately Melco has done this for you. It is called "test" designs.

These designs are found in C drive, Program Files, Melco Embroidery Systems, Amaya, Test Designs. If you are using Version 9 software, then you would just use "Melco" in place of "Melco Embroidery Systems". These designs are called Ampass, Amtrim, Columbine Flower and a Cap Test design.

Set up your machine "exactly" as follows....

Hoop up 3 pieces of Cut-a-way backing in a 44X30cm jacketback hoop. DO NOT use any tear-a-way. Tear-a-way has limited uses for the most part and has caused a lot of grief for newcomers to the embroidery world. Misuse of it will result in a tremdous amount of fraying and thread breakage. Hoop these pieces as tightly as you can get them. No floppy-ness allowed. I sometimes lightly spray some adhesive spray between the layers of backing, but tight is the key here.

Now to the machine....

Because we have no real way of knowing how well or when the machine was last lubricated, wellll....assuming in this case or taking their word for it would not be the wisest thing to do. Now having said that, I am going to have to assume that your "Hook timing" has been checked and is adjusted properly. I am also going to assume you are using Version 7.00.xxx software???

It would be nice to know that ALL of the rollers, both the red pinch rollers and the yellow threadfeed rollers are well lubed. The needles bars are freshly oiled. Add some oil drops(say 15 drops for now)in the reciprocator slot. Oil the rotary hook. I would even go so far as to lube the Take-up Lever Cam Disk in your case. Go into Settings, Timers and step through the 10 million stitch timer to see how to acomplish this procedure. Take off the needle plate and clean and re-oil the trimmer mechanism. I cannot stress how important it is to have the machine well lubed to establish a baseline. I know all of this seems like such a pain, but it is the only way to find out what is going on. It is a process of elimination.

Set your presser foot all the way down and back up one click. This is important.

Make SURE that there are NO burrs on ANY of the needles.

Make SURE that ALL needles are oriented properly. This means that the GROOVE down the front of the needle is turned slightly 5 to 10 degrees to the RIGHT! Never to the left. I use a lighted magnifying glass to see this clearly.

Under Settings, Threadfeed, make sure the "Auto Lower Limit" is at it's default of 1 to start with. Just click on the restore default button. In this case we will start by using Auto Activ-feed, not "Standard" Activ-feed.

Clean your bobbin case, under the leaf spring and set bobbin tension to be snug..you should have been shown how to do this correctly.

Set the machine speed to 1200spm.

Juli is right. Melco thread is ARC thread and is not associated with Isacord. The thread must be known to be of good quality. Do not use any rayon thread for this test.

Load up Amtrim to start. This design is for testing the trimmer operation. Set colors 1 through 16 and it will color wrap for the rest of the colors in the design. Document failures and what needle(s) they are on and what kind they are, frays, breaks, false breaks, etc....
and what needles they accur on.

Then run Ampass. Set the colors the same as Amtrim. Honestly, you should be able to run Ampass, IF and only IF eveything above has been followed to the letter, with 4 or 5 or less thread breaks. Document all of the failures, if any, what needles, etc.

If the machine will not run Ampass sucessfully, when it is well lubed and all of the settings are correct, then there is probably a machine problem. If it does, then you need to look at it being a design problem when doing a personal design. You also must eliminate the possibility that the wrong backing is/has been used or not enough backing is being used, that hooping is not tight enough, etc, etc....

Please let us know how this goes....

Rod Springer
Amaya Tech & Trainer

[Rod or Sharon]

As far as the needles used at melco for testing, they use 75/11 Organ DBX-K5. Either ballpoint or Sharp will be ok for this test on backing.

Just make sure all of them are the same for the baseline tests....did i say oriented properly and NO burrs ???

Rod Springer
Amayua Tech & Trainer

[Rod or Sharon]

Fab,
One more comment about the machine. It is a "pre-production XT". I have one just like it. It, being this old, is imperative that you do a complete lubrication sequence on it.

On this machine, are the threadfeed rollers a black color or are they yellow in color?? If they are black, then this is old school and if they have thread cuts and/or grooves worn in them, then this may also be your problem. The older black rollers were softer and needed to be replaced much more often then the newer yellow style. It was a cause for massive trhread break problems if they were not maintained.

Rod Springer
Amaya Tech & Trainer

[The Embroidery Authority - OLD]

Just a heads up. You guys are saying that Melco uses only ARC thread. We know this to be true here in the US of America but Fab is over in Italy. It might be possible that that Melco office sells Isacord for whatever reason. Hence, one cannot assume the thread is old. Although this would be a good guess.

We also do not know what version of Amaya Operating software Fab is using so he/she may not have a lower limit setting in software.

Also, Fab,....
As for training from the person who sold you the machine, just remember that a copy of a copy of a copy is never like the original. I suggest you seek out both applications and machine training from a certified trainer with experience.
PS> Pay my airfare and lodging to Rome and I'll train you for free. Heh heh.

Ed Orantes
Melco Tech & Trainer

[Hugo Torbidoni]

Fab,

PAISANO!!

All I can say is.......... Ok the machine has 16 needles. the testing should have been done on all 16 needles not just 2 needles on a 2 color design.

Whether a machine is under warranty or not the Tech should have run a design that tested all colors and functions on the machine.

What Rod suggested you do is exactly what the Tech should have done in the first place,and based on the number of thread breaks,missed trims, registration problems,errors,etc,he should have then been able to determine what if any adjustments should be made.

Whether you are new to embroidery or not you need to be sure that the machine is functioning properly. Then you won't be second guessing your self when and if you have problems later.

Hugo Torbidoni
(The Ancona,Italy, Torbidoni's)
301-471-3157
Melco Tech

[levelbest]

A shout out from the Tartaglia's here (Mom's maiden name). Hugo, we could have had some pasta with Gravy had I known when you were over the other day! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Hugo Torbidoni]

John,

Truth be known, I'm half Italian and half Argentine. Pasta,Beef,and lots of wine!

Some people eat to live.

Me,I live to eat.


Hugo Torbidoni

[Freeman78_italy]

Hi Again guys!
First of all , really i have to thank you for the great answers.You are really great!
Tomorrow morning i will have a meeting with a melco tech and i hope he can fix all.
Rod's answer about testing is really great.
Ed, be careful about what you ask!!
If i can't have that fixed by the tech i will get a ticket for ya!!
Hugo nice to meet ya, i feel at home here [img]smile.gif[/img]
About software i have designshop 2005, don't really know amaya os version but will see tomorrow and take note [img]smile.gif[/img]
Will keep you updated!
The real BAD thing is that the manual is in english, which i understand and speak quite correctly.....and the tech when he came..well..he can't speak english!!! Doh!