Thread Breaks On All Needles

[Vegas Embroidery]

Hello,

For the past couple of days I've been having thread breaks occur on all needles. What happens is the thread starts to fray first then bunches up and then pops and breaks.

I've been on the phone with Melco support for 2 days and they've been very helpful. We have narrowed down the possibilities to the needle plate and rotary hook. There could be a nick in the plate or rotary hook. I tried to check with a magnifying glass but could not really see anything.

My question is, has anyone else had this problem or any suggestions.

Thanks Ben

[TinaK]

Ben:

You don't mention if you have a big red or an XT and also did you make sure the needles were in correctly which is long groove facing you.

If it is a nick you might not be able to see it try rubbing your finger or your fingernail around to see if it snags on anything...

Are you new to the machine or did you just get it?

[Vegas Embroidery]

Yes, thank you. I have an XT and I've had it for over a year. All needles are in the correct position and I also check the plate with my fingers and thread itself.

[levelbest]

Does sound like something with the rotary hook - like a burr - has to be something that effects all needles. Did anything happen before this started going on? Needle break? Something that would have changed the way the machine operates? What if any symptoms lead up to this? More information you can give everyone the better...

[Wishes]

Are you adjusting the pressure foot? Or is the design too dense. Too many stitches in an area can cause thead breaks. Margaret

[Vegas Embroidery]

The particular design that this problem started with has very small writing. The digitizing isn't very good so I've always had issues with it but not as much as now. I have had some needle breaks about a month ago especially on needle 16 where I keep a 65-9BP to do small fonts.

After that isssue I did a needle calibration and things worked good. Just in the past couple of days this started. I did another needle calibration today and had a few issues but not as bad as the other day.

I do adjust the pressure foot depending on the garment etc. I've been sewing out different designs and fonts since and as stated not as many problems but it is still happening.

[Rod or Sharon]

Gee Ben,

You didn't let us in on all the secrets between you and Melco. What has been
discussed and what hasn't?

How about:
thread
needles(type, brand, size, burrs)
needle orientation
presser foot height
speed
who digitized the design or is it stock design?
dense design
type of material being sewen on
nick or burr on retaining support finger
machine lubrication
bobbin tension
humidity(dry thread)Vegas is pretty dry

The list goes on....

If all of the above and more have really been eliminated , it does leave the
immediate area of the rotary hook and needle plate suspect. If those are
found to be ok, then my gut tells me to remove the retaining support finger
, feel the face of the finger and look closely at the face of the finger
with a magnifying glass...if it is burred it must either be replaced or
polished out. It must also be replaced using the gapping tool supplied with
your starter kit or the machine will not sew properly.

Rod Springer
Amaya Tedh & Trainer

[The Embroidery Authority - OLD]

Ben,
What backing are you using and what is the garment type?
Have you lubricated your red pinch rollers lately?
Do you oil the rotary hook daily?
Ed

[Vegas Embroidery]

Wow, there is a lot to consider.

Ok. Here goes;
1.Thread: Melco Brand.
2. Needles: All Organ Brand not Titanium. All 75-11BP except Needles 1,2 which are 65-9 Sharp for hats and Needle 16 which is 65-9 BP for small designs/fonts.
3. Presser foot height is set according to the garment.
4. Speed is typically at 900 however, depending on garment, design, etc is may be slowed down.
5. The design in question that this started with was digitized by someone other then my digitizer and I have some problems with the smaller font but not always. The design is not dense.
6. Material for this design are chef coats and backing is tear away.
7. Nick or Burr: Can’t see a nick on the support finger and not sure what a Burr is. There does seem to be a very slight nick on the needle plate (not very bad).
8. Machine Lubrication: Machine was just lubricated except for the Red and Yellow Rollers since I need to replace a few and waiting for parts. (However, there are no noticeable cuts or grooves on the rollers.)
9 Bobbin Tension is correct.
10. Humidity: SUPER DRY.
11. Rotary Hook Lub: I do not oil that daily. Usually I wait for the pop up to appear in OS or if I notice I need oil then I put a drop on the hook.

One thing I did notice as I was going thru my spread sheet on needle replacement is that some of my needle including needle 14 which was having the problem with the design in question is that the needle hasn’t been replace in a long time. I do not know how long a needle is supposed to last but my records show that some of my needles have not been replaced in some time.

My only problem is that after I did replace needle 14 the thread breaks continued with the design. I will do some more tests on that needle as well as the rest. I am currently sewing as I write and knock on wood no problems.

If there are any other suggestions till replacement parts come I would appreciate it.

[Juli in Kona]

If you live in a SUPER DRY area, then you absolutely have to oil the hook every day. And if you use your machine all day, then oil again at 4 hours. This is a MUST! You are going to freeze the hook and that may be your problem right now. Do not wait for the terribly inadequate timer to tell you to oil the hook.

AND you should probably be doing your scheduled maintenance early too. The oil we use actually evaporates! IMO and I am not a tech, but I listen to them, you should be doing a lot more maintenance.

If you have thread shredding on all needles with any design, then the problem is 99% sure in the hook area. A burr is a rough edge, usually created when the needle strikes the hook. If the thread rubs against that, then it will shred - for sure.

Juli in Kona

[levelbest]

just a quick note - the only time I run at 850-900 is on hats. 1100-1200 is the comfort speed of these machines.

Big question I had is you mentioned with this design there is an issue. Can you run the AMPASS design at 1100-1200? Can you run other designs or do they still have the issue?

[The Embroidery Authority - OLD]

Hey Ben,
Oil the rotary hook every time you turn the machine on. If you are sewing consistently, oil it twice a day with one drop per oiling. Are you sure you're oiling in the correct location????
Personal comment: I believe that a 65/9 needle is too small for a cap. You should consider a 75/11 or an 80/12 for structured caps.
Needles should be changed out after approximately 8 hours of operation on THAT NEEDLE. (Not 8 hours on the machine)
Melco's maintenance timer for the thread feed and pinch rollers is 4 million. This suggests you check all 16 after 4 million stitches assuming you're using all of your needles. If you divide 4 million stitches by 16 needles, then you get 250,000 stitches per needle that you should consider cleaning or lubricating those rollers being used.
In summary, if you are sewing a large job that only uses two needles/colors, then I would suggest you check your rollers for cleanliness and lubrication after 500,000 stitches and not wait for the 4 million stitch timer to remind you. Remember to use the "Polymer Grease" on the rollers and not the multipurpose grease.
The new version of AOS (Ver. 9) has a better way of keeping track of the number of stitches sewn per needle/thread feed roller set. Something to look forward to anyway.
Ed

[Vegas Embroidery]

First off I would like to thank everyone for all the great feed back.

I will definitely start to oil the hook as mentioned above and check the hook for the burr. I am also going to replace all necessary needles. In regards to running the machine at 1100-1200 I thought it was just to fast but I can give it try. I used the machine all day today for monograms and two different digitized designs and knock on wood no problems. One of the designs was for 12 hats and they came out great.

Levelbest, I’m not sure what the AMPASS design is but if you can refresh my memory I will try it on Tuesday.

Ed, I will also recheck and replace the pinch rollers when the parts come next week.

I will follow up next week after I make the changes and see if things improve. More oil and more needle changes for sure.

[levelbest]

Ampass is a test design that runs the machine thru the hoops and hurdles

C:\Program Files\Melco Embroidery Systems\AMAYA\Test Designs

You hoop the large wooden hoop with 2 pieces of cutaway and run at 1200. The machine should run with no more than 2-3 of thread breaks. (Ed and others, correct me if I am wrong)

It tests wide columns, small letters, fills, satins, trims etc. It's actually quite interesting to watch. The purpose is to get a baseline on how your machine is operating.

I'm suprised that if support suggested that your issues were a rotary hook that a more extended test like this wasn't run to see how your machine performed overall.

[The Embroidery Authority - OLD]

John,
Well, in all fairness to Ampass and the Machine, the proper material combination to run with Ampass, (and any other design) would be one layer of "broad cloth" and two layers of Cut-a-way backing. The backing/stabilizer is there to support/compliment the strength of the fabric.
Although,.... I have sewn on only two layers of cut-a-way before when fabric wasn't available. You might get an extra thread break or two simply because the backing is tearing underneath all those stitches which can create a hole. And we all know we can't sew in a hole! There's nothing for the thread to wrap around and BAM!... Thread break.

Ed