Slim Line Hoop Definition Issues

[levelbest]

Running 7.00.115

Noticed an odd thing tonite that caused us to total 2 Ogio travel suitcases (read expensive) with the slim line clamping system.

Jeff B. would probably be the expert here, but we had a design that was working fine. At some point, my wife hooped something up that was about a half to three quarters of an inch away from the left side hoop limit of the 4x6 hoop.

When it got to the last column of a small letter n (closest to the left - it sewed from left to right), the colum sewed super thin, and the bobbin kept breaking. Thinking something just went wrong, we trimmed, checked the bobbin and tried again. Same thing. No matter how we tried, we couldn't get it to sew without bobbin breaking.

Finally, we actually took the hoop off the machine and cut away the excess and tried again. Still the same issue. Frustrated, we switched to another needle and moved the thread. Same issue. Nothing wrong with the bobbin - no birds nests.

At this point, the bag was pretty much ruined unless we can HAND SEW the satin stitch, so we advanced forward to the next color which was on the right side. Sewed fine. Then it comes back to the same needle and same color as the first letters - sewed fine.

We chalked it up as just one of those things. The next few bags sewed fine. Then it happened again.

Still didn't think anything about it, until I hooped one up myself and sewed. This time, it was closer to the right side. And a similar thing happend. Thank goodness it was only on a walk stitch trademark "TM" in the design... but the M in tm got condensed.

At this point, I started to wonder if something with the hoop definition didn't like us being that close to the left. Sounds strange but at that point, I told the machine we had an 8x8 on there and were just careful not to exceed the limits of the hoop.

Guess what, it's sewed fine.

I know at times I have sewed caps by telling the machine it's a flat to get it to sew better and sew wider satin stitches without it breaking them up.

Is it possible something about the hoop definition is making the machine sew odd near the edges (but not exceeding the limits)? Maybe I am just loosing my mind or my machine is telling me it's had enough today.

Thoughts?

[The Embroidery Authority - OLD]

Hey John,
If I'm understanding what you're describing, and this is an Original Amaya (not an XT) then I think what may be happening is the underside of the hoop is hanging up on the sides of the needle plate and bobbin arm. This condesing of stitches as you described happens when the weight of the garment or item is so heavy that it pulls the hoop below the top surface of the needleplate. This will happen around the bottom and sides of the hoop window only. On the XT you would only have problems with this on the bottom of the window and not the sides as the needleplate is curved. What should be done here is to insure the hoop is adjusted on the machine so that the underside of the hoop is just grazing the needle plate and then certainly touching the needle plate when you add the weight of the garment. If the item being sewed is very weighty, they you should assist by supporting it as it sews.
Hope this helps,
Ed Orantes
Melco Tech & Trainer
504-258-6260

[levelbest]

Big Ed:

Yep, it's a big red - and yes, the bags were heavy enough. We suppored them when sewing.

This was using a slim line clamping system. I'm trying to understand what you said and how it could happen - and how I could prevent it using this hoop in the future.

JOHN

[signman]

What is happening can be seen if you run the same job again but drop the speed down to 300 so you can see it...as the sewout nears the 'bad spot' you should 'hear' the hoop click against the needle plate-and you should see the hoop/bag shudder a little...and if you are lucky, you'll see the needle bending! The weight of the bag is pulling the hoop down too far-so the hoop sides are lower than the needle plate and they will hit and catch on it while trying to sew that letter. If it catches the needle plate, the hoop isn't moving far enough but the needle is still coming down...so it hits in the wrong place by a fraction of a smidgeon...the hoop jumps, the bag moves where it should, but the needle is now pulled or pushed against the needle plate...instant thread fuzzing or snapping.
You can easily build a 'table' extension around the nose of the machine so the bag is resting completely UP level with the hoop-and this won't happen. Or switch to the next size hoop-tricking it by setting for a larger hoop and not using it won't do it-it will still hit there. OR shrink the design just enough to keep from going that far. Chances are that you are well within the 'gray line' area for sewing, but the hoop/clamp
itself underneath is running into the needle plate when it goes to the side.
You might be able to see it 'jump' just doing a trace, listen for the 'click' and watch for the hoop to jump.
Roland

[levelbest]

Still having a hard time visualizing this... and understand how the side of the slim line hoop is clicking against the needle plate when I am a good 1/2 inch from the sew limits even.

Maybe my brain just isn't working.

[levelbest]

BTW, if anyone has built a table extension, I'd love to see a picture.

[signman]

The needle plate extends far enough beyond the 'needle hole' that the slimline frame can run into the edge of the plate even though you aren't up to the sew limit line...with lightweight material and the hoop adjusted right (lifting UP at a slight angle) it normally would clear the needle plate. With a heavy jacket or bag, the frame is being pulled down and then it will run into it.
With your slimline hoop on the machine, and the machine TURNED OFF, no power...take the hoop 'bar' and move it around and watch the needle plate. It should clear it no problem...now push DOWN on the slimline hoop, and move it around-you'll see how it can run into that needle plate yet there is plenty of 'space' left to sew in.
The slimline clamp system is great, but it just isn't strong enough for heavy loads so you have to help it out. Heavy totes we do are in small quantity, so one of us just sits in front of the Amaya and actually hold the bag up from underneath. One of these days I'll build a support table-I have the material to do it, just keep forgetting!
Roland

[levelbest]

OK, will check it out and try what you mentioned - but we were supporting the bags by hand. Maybe we got tired! I really need to talk to the two brothers I went to tech training class with - they do OGIO corporate work and surely have some sort of table built!

Which reminds me - someone said on the slimlines a while ago there was a black piece of plastic that was supposed to adhere to the underside of it or something like that? Is that true? Ours (bought from melco) didn't include that.

[signman]

there should have been an 'alignment' strip of plastic that you set on the nose bar to align the frame, useless anyways because you will find you have to angle the frame up higher anyways.
The 'black' plastic must be the 'gripper' material, almost like a bathtub strip-that goes under the top frame-gives it a 'bite' to keep material from slipping. That should already be installed before you got it.
At some point last year I think-some one posted info about the 'table' they had built so maybe a search of the archives would dig it up.
If I can get the time and remember to do it, I have 1/4" sintra sitting around I could easily build one and take pictures of.
Roland

[Rod or Sharon]

John,

Probably what they may have been referring to is that phantom piece of teflon tape that used to be supplied with the hoops. I didn't get any with ours and don't know of anyone that did....the instructions referred to it and said to attach it to the top of the sewing arm to prevent galling to the bottom of the Slimline and to the top of the sewing arm.....

Rod Springer
Amaya Tech & Trainer

[levelbest]

I think you are correct Rod [img]smile.gif[/img]

[integrity]

Is there a source for such a teflon tape? Cause I definitely have scarred up the bottom of my SlimLines, everytime it hits the transition between the needle plate and the back arm cover, there is just enough of a little lip there to catch some "yellow."

Dave

[The Embroidery Authority - OLD]

The teflon tape was originally installed on the ICTCS hoop at the factory. This hoop was the predecessor to the slimline. This tape works like a bib does. It's there just in case you were to drip pudding on your shirt.
Meaning that the tape pads the underside of the rear of the slimline if it happens to rub against the bobbin/sewing arm. When I adjust the slimline, I do so so that the rear underside has about 3mm clearance from the top of the bobbin/sewing arm. Hence, the teflon tape is not necessary.
Here's something else to consider, Every once in a while I have to check these settings to verify they are correct because they can change over time in the battle field with use. Especially if your employees have strong arms.
Ed