Bobbin "tail" not long enough after trim

[MJ]

What would you do in the case of after a trim, there's not enough bobbin thread coming out to catch the top thread to continue. I've loosened the bobbin tension as much as I can. I'm using paper sided black bobbins (Madeira) -- actually it happens with white bobbins also. Is there some other adjustment I can do to make the bobbin "tail" (that's probably the wrong term to use) longer after a trim?
Thanks for any and all suggestions!
P.S. What are some cases where you need to increase top thread feed? This is a new concept to me since I've always worked with machines with top thread tensions. I'm still searching for the "sweet spot" of balanced upper and bobbin thread.

[monogramsbylaura]

Check your trim setting. Default is medium length

[Greenwing]

To increase your top thread feed you can adjust the material thickness or you can set the lower feed limit up a bit. either will allow for more top thread.

[Mama Kass]

I may be wrong, but I think the length of tail settings determine the length of both bobbin and upper thread left on the back of the embroidery after a trim, not the length left in the machine after cutting - this cannot be adjusted.

The inching stitches (the first few slow stitches as the machine starts sewing) are supposed to allow the upper thread to catch, but sometimes it just doesn't do it for as much as a dozen stitches. I have found that the longer the starting stitches, the more likely it is that the bobbin won't catch immediately. I have this problem when I sew with metallics and have learned to digitize tie-ins where needed. If you do your own digitizing, you could also lay in a walk stitch under the first element to allow the thread to catch before the element actually sews. It just occurred to me that increasing the number of inching stitches might also help; has anyone tried this?

As far as the thread feed, I'll leave this to wiser heads than mine. I recently received a nice explanation of the relationship between column & fill feed settings and thread feed. Maybe somebody could take the time to do a posting on this subject because my search didn't turn up much. I have learned that there is no "sweet spot" because there are so many variables.

[MJ]

Thanks for the input!
I knew I shouldn't have used the word "tail" -- wrong terminology.
What is happening is that after a trim, the bobbin thread that is coming out of the pigtail, that the upper thread has to "grab" is only about 1/2 inch long. So after almost every trim, the upper thread tries to grab the bobbin thread, but there is not enough for it to grab onto. I've loosened and tightened the bobbin tension, and it doesn't make a difference as far as the length of thread it leaves coming out of the pigtail after a trim. What would be the fixes to try to correct this?
And I do always have it do walk stitches at the beginning of an element--but not long ones. I've also played with the inching stitches and it doesn't seem to help.
I can't get anything done because I have to babysit the machine and rethread the needle after almost every trim! Help!

[Bill C @ Fineline]

I would like to know why this happens also. It doesn't happen all the time, but once in a while after a trim the upper thread does not catch and when you look at the bobbin only a 1/2" is out from the pigtail. You pull it out a little, restart and everything is ok. By the way, we have XTs

[Rod or Sharon]

Ok...you want to know...here is the scoop.

The problem MJ is having is because the selector is out of adjustment. The selectors job is to penetrate a triangle of top thread and bobbin thread from the bottom side of the garment to the bobbin case/rotary hook area. Looks kind of like this /\. ON the right side of the triangle will be a top thread and the bobbin thread. On the left side of the triangle will be the rest of the top thread. The top thread is tied to the bottom of the garment with the bobbin thread.

When the selector fires, it penetrates the triangle. The selector has a fish hook point that when retracted, will hook both the top thread and the bobbin thread on the right side of the triangle and pull them back under a presser spring. The knife then fires cutting these two threads and the grabber then pulls the cut end of the top thread back into the trap getting it out of the way.

If the selector does not travel it's prescribed throw, it does not always pick up the bobbin thread and/or the top thread. In the case of the bobbin thread being missed by the selector, it leaves it out at the front of the bobbincase and when the knife fires it cuts the bobbin thread off just above the top of the bobbin case leaving a short tail, too short for it to tie into the top thread again.

Usually... all this happens because the selector push rod cable has become bent or kinked or the cable clamp that hold the pushrod has loosened and allowed the pushrod to slip. Bottom line is the selector/knife (trimmer system) is out of adjustment and needs to be readjusted to spec...

Having said all that...in Bills case where it is intermittant, it may be a design issue with loose tie offs or other threadfeed issues. But, to tackle trimmer issues, it must be known that the trimmer is in proper adjustment before looking else where.

Rod Springer
Amaya Tech & Trainer

[MJ]

Hi Rod!
Thanks for the education!
My XTS is only a month old -- is this something that can happen so soon? I'm still getting used to it, so I don't even use it as much as I do my Brother PR620. Should I contact Melco?

[MJ]

Now it's not trimming at all! I've never called a tech repair person yet.
I live in Chicago -- should I call Rick Lambert?

[Judy]

When I had trimmer issues, it was because it was full of thread. Find how to clean your trimmer. It's really easy...remove two screws and sit with a pair of tweezers plucking out thread. Oil. Put screws back in. It helped me a lot. Couldn't hurt to try.

[MJ]

Thanks, but I took the needle plate off already and cleaned. There wasn't really much in there -- like I said, I've only had the machine a month!

Does anyone have experience with tech Ben Day in Indiana? He's the only one I see on the Melco list of certified techs close to Chicago. Does anyone know of someone else closer to Chicago?

[Greenwing]

If you have only had it a month,
CALL \Melco have them send or assign a tech it should be functioning perfectly.
If not have them deal with it under warrenty.

[MJ]

Thanks Jerome!
I will call Melco on Tuesday. I wish tomorrow wasn't a holiday!
The trimmer/selector mechanism must have gradually gotten out of whack, because it seems since I got it, it had a lot of trouble after a trim. I just thought it was because of something I was doing or not doing -- since I was still getting used to using a new machine and new software.

[MJ]

Hi everybody!
Thought I'd give an update on my XTS. First, Melco sent Allen Baumgartner (no charge since in first 90 days after purchase), who was great and he explained a lot to me and answered all my questions! I'm the type that has to learn the logic behind everything then I can trouble shoot better when something goes wrong. He's from Dekalb, IL which is not that far from Chicago. It ended up that one of the cables that move the trimmer had come off. I couldn't see it because I had not taken off the rear cover of the tubular arm. Also, the bracket (or whatever it's called) that holds the trimmer/selector mechanism was out of adjustment. He found quite a few other things out of adjustment, which must have been that way when I received it brand new from the factory. Even the "air tubes" were all crazily crisscrossed, which made them come off occasionally when moving the head from needle to needle. So, I'm happy to report that all is trimming good and I'm also getting way better results and way less thread breaks, etc!!! So my love for my machine is coming back - Yeah! So many problems were happening previously and I kept thinking I was doing something wrong! But there's a good side to that situation -- I always say, the more problems you have, the more you are forced to learn! I'm gradually depending more on the XTS rather than my Brother as I get more proficient. Still having the issues sometimes with the TTF, but if I have a file that won't open in AOS 10, I go back and save it in .exp format, and other workarounds that I've discovered. It still doesn't like some of my .pes files, but I'm getting the feeling that the two machines "think" totally differently, so a .pes file doesn't stitch out as well as an original .ofm. And/or it's my digitizing and it's something that I can "get away with" on my Brother, but the XTS is a little more "fussy." [img]smile.gif[/img]
Well, just wanted to give an update. Thanks to all who helped and gave advice. This group's knowledge/experience is invaluable to me, and I hope to be a good, contributing member for years to come! (You guys don't know me as well as I know all of you, because I've been reading every post for over a year now!)
All the best, MJ, Everything Embroidered