Machines not stitching alike

[sroot3485]

I have an XTS and a Big Red. I am running 6 panel caps, same file, same settings on both machines, hooping the same. The problem is that the columns are stitching at different widths. You can actually see even the zig zag underlay not stitching as wide on the Big Red. Column width on XTS is 1/4" and a full 1/16" less on the Big Red. Any thoughts.

[Rod or Sharon]

Root...

Being the XTS is the newest off the line and the Reds the oldest, my first thought is that the X-axis cable tension on the Big Red needs to be adjusted because the cable has stretched over time/use.

When Ver 9 came out, the Reds X-axis cables needed to be retensioned higher. What Version of software are you currently running?

Rod Springer

[sroot3485]

I'm running ver 10. never noticed it on ver 9 but didn't have a comparative either. Is the adjustment difficult?

[Rod or Sharon]

Ver 10 is the newest out...Ver 9 and Big Reds usually caused the machine to be very noisey unless the X-axis cables were retensioned.

On the XT's and the XTS it is relatively easy to adjust the cable tension with the proper tools and tension gauges. The Big Reds are a different story. The cable has a pigtail wrapped around a rough casting stud and then run through a " U " clamp to hold it in place after tensioning it. This is much different than the XT,XTS versions. It is very easy to break the cable pigtail off by over stretching it. If this happens, you have my permission to curse.....a lot....it is not an easy fix after that and you can figure on a tech call to fix the problem. I would probably rely on a tech anyway to retension the X-axis cable on a Big Red. I have done several of them and they still make me nervous. It is not one of my favorite exercises on the Amaya......

The X-axis cable tension can cause the unequal column width you mentioned eariler...

Rod Springer
Amaya Tech & Trainer

[sroot3485]

Thanks Rod, I think it's time to call a tech.

[sroot3485]

Rod, do you know the specs for cable tension prior to ver 9 and what the new specs are. Or do you know where I could find them? Only thing on melco is for the XT and newer. Thanks, Steve

[Mike Doe]

You could also approach this by clicking on the XTS machine (making sure it is the only machine highlighted in the machine list) in AOS and click on tools then settings. Under settings click on the settings tab. At the bottom of the settings tab is box called column width adjustment. Take and enter 1.6 into the X and Y axis points(.o1mm) field. If you are only seeing the column width adjustment issue in X (left to right) or Y (top to bottom) then only adjust accordingly. The AOS operators manual has some additional information on the pull comp adjustments. Do a search for settings tab. Remember, if you are only seeing this when sewing caps to change the values back to 0 before sewing flat goods/other products
Merry Christmas to all!

[sroot3485]

After further testing, I have determined that I am only having the problem with the cap driver, flat work is stitching fine. Are there adjustments to the driver. I am also noticing that the edge walk underlay is starting to show in spots because the columns aren't stitching the correct width.

[Rod or Sharon]

sroot,

We need to thank Mike Doe for stepping in with some valuble input on this issue. Mike is a powerhouse of information and any info that he shares can be relied on to be very reliable. Thanks Mike.

The Big Red has a flat sewing arm and the XTS has a round one. This is one of the improvements Melco that made for better cap sewing on the Amayas. Watch the instructional vidieo that Herb Acree and my wife Sharon made one day while I was working on one of his machines. Here is the link...

http://www.amayausers.com/tips/default.asp

I doubt that it is the cap driver being out of adjustment in this case. I am going to lean towards the style of the cap, hooping not being tight enough, maybe not using enough backing and digitizing issues.

When you say the "edgewalk" underlay is peeking out..... is it on lettering? Large lettering , small lettering, how big, how small? What is the stitch length of the underlay stitch and why are you using edgewalk?

Are you using the raised needleplate on the Big Red? Where do you have your presserfoot set? Are you using the 270 degree style of cap frame?

How long is the backing piece(s) are you using. It should be long enough so the teeth on both sides of the frame can grip them securely.

Is the design digitized properly for cap sewing, ie., bottom up and centerout? Is any pull comp being used in the design? Loose hooping and improper digitizing allows the cap to be pushed and pulled around and in combination with column shrinkage and underlay stitch length, while sewing, will allow centerwalk and edgewalk underlay to "peek" out of the design elements.

As you can see, there are quite a few varibles involved. They need to be resolved before it can be determined whether it is a machine issue or a design issue we are dealing with.

Rod Springer
Amaya Tech & Trainer

[sroot3485]

Merry Christmas and thank you Rod and Mike. I have watched Herbs hooping technique and employ it when I am hooping hats. I have tried other structured and unstructured caps with the same result. The cap is only three large letters, Appoximately 1 1/4" high and columns in the letter are .30# wide and default to a fill stitch. I just ran the auto underlay which place the edgewalk and zig zag stitching. Edgewalk is 25 pts. I am using the raised needleplate and 270 capframe. I generally run the presser foot from all the way down to 1 up on caps but have tried it everywhere on this run without any noticable improvement at any setting. Backing is long enuff as I am sewing one side also. Side isn't stitching that well either but believe if I fix the front the side will improve also. Digitizing is bottom up center out. In restrospect I did a few hats before this and thought they looked a little strange but because of the design it wasn't as noticable, but know I know why I didn't like them. As I said I have tried several different hats (ones I've not had a problem with in the past) and am getting the same results. I did tighten the x axis cable some and it did quiet the machine right down but had no effect on column width. Tomorrow I will try Mike's suggestion from the software side of setting although I am inclined to think it is some mechanical problem. Thanks for your input.

[Rod or Sharon]

sroot,

Definitly give Mike's info a go. I have not had the oportunity to have much experience with the interaction of Ver 10 with the combination of Big Reds and XT versions.

Are you using the wings with the raised presser foot? With the big Red and using the raised presser foot, the correct position of the presser foot is all the way up and down two clicks.

What cap driver designations are you using with the Big Red and the XTS?

On problem unstructured caps, using two layers of backing, lightly sprayed with adheasive spray will really help at times.

Try doing away with the "auto underlay and going with just a zig zag underlay set at 15 point density and a 70% border. Do away with the edgewalk completely. The zig zay, in my experience, follows the contour of the satin column and does not have the tendency to peek outside of the columns like a center walk or edgewalk will. When using a double zig zag for this, you can open up the density of the underlay to around 25 or so. This also allow for opening up the density of the column some, because the zig zag underlay(s) are creating a good colored base for the top stitching and will hide any stretching.

What density are you running in the lettering now? I would think something around 4 to 4.5, maybe even 5-ish with a double zig zag underlay, should work ok with a .3 column. What pull comp values are you using with the lettering?

The X-axis cable should be in the 10 plus or minus 1/2 pound range when measured and set correctly. As I mention before, it is easy to mess up and break the pig tail off the cable when attemping to adjust the Big Red if it is not done properly and even then great care must be exercised in doing it. I carry a spare cable with me, but I certainly don't want the opportunity to have to use it.

Rod Springer
Amaya Tech & Trainer

[EEAmayaTech]

Hi Sroot,
There is a chance your cap driver is out of adjustment or there is a Binding in your Cap Driver. Remove the cap hoop, hit the emergency stop and slide the carriage from left to right. Look to see if the Graphite bar is always contacting the Cap Cylinder. Difficult to describe but have a look at your Technical Manuals and your XTS for Reference.. Also, the cylinder should only be about 2 mm from the rotary arm.
Good Luck....

[sroot3485]

I want to thanks everyone for their input. Fortunately I have been too busy lately to do much more investigating. I did run a stitch test on flat stitching and the machines are stitching identical so no problem without cap drivers installed. You have given me some good things to track down and I will let you know what happens as soon as I can get back to the problem solving.