Trouble with hats

[HH5131]

I have a simple design that I quickly created (didn't have it digitized) and I am having the hardest time sewing it out on hats! It seems to be fine on oxford shirts and vests that I've put it on already, but so far I've done 2 hats and they both look like crap! It's a simple star about 1" (fill) with text beside it. I can't give the hats to the customer because I'm very disappointed with the quality. Anyone have any hints for me???

[signman]

A simple rule I learned in training class...if you digitize a design for shirts, it won't work on hats. Digitize a design for hats, it WILL work on shirts. Confused?
Sewing on hats is the hardest to do because you are working with X, Y, AND Z movements. Needle up and down, hat side to side, AND around a curve. So you have everything against you.
You need to plan the sewing so it starts closest to the brim first (lettering under the design, for example) and THAT has to be done from the 'center' of the line out to each side. Easy to do-click a button in your text property window. Now, the design above-90% of the hats have a center seam-this is a real butt kicker. Your needle has to go through up to 6 layers of material at once! So it screws up the density and tightness of the thread. Plan the design, if a fill, once again to start in the middle and work out-or if you can't, start on the bottom and work UP towards the crown of the hat.
Densitys for fills cannot be as high (low number) for hats as shirts-so a shirt design fill of 4, might be a 5 or 5.5 on a hat. Lettering that is a 3.5 might have to be a 4.5 or 5, and no underlayment on lettering unless it is fat. Increase pull comp on lettering, makes it bolder.
Hats are tricky-I don't have my machine up and running or I'd say to send me the design and I'd look at it for you-but someone else here might offer to help. Take your time, slow the machine down, doublecheck your hooping, use a stiff tear away backing...etc. etc. etc....hats are a real bugger-but a few folks here are experts at it and will help you!
Ed...where are you?

[KERRMINATOR]

Personally, I hate hats I was doing this one crest logo for a polo club and it stitched fine on the polo shirts, then the guy decided he wanted it put on baseball caps as well. Oye Vay!

So, I just went ahead and tried it out on a hat, but it was all screwy. It was supposed to be 2 inches high and about the same wide.....it turned out 2 inches high and maybe 1.5 inches wide. So it looked ridiculous. I had to stretch it out to a silly looking width and leave the height the same in order for it to look normal on the hat. I know if I stitched that design on a flat garment, it would be incredibly wide looking.

I'm now wondering if it would have been possible to use the fast frames with sticky backing for those since they were unstructured caps. Unfortunately, I don't have fast frames so I don't know if it would have given me better results or caused more problems. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[signman]

THe only flat frames you can use on hats would be for the 'arc' over the back of the hat and small logos on the very sides. No way to hoop the front of a hat because of the curve of the brim where it is sewn together.
For the back 'arc' I use the smaller 4" hoop, and you have to 'test' sew an arc on flat material until you get the right curve.

[levelbest]

Just a note - the only time I have had the stretchy issue on hats (design wise) was when my cable tensions weren't in spec and I tried to run at high speed. Honestly, I started hating hats but don't mind them anymore. With the CCF, it's relatively painless to hoop and running at 850, I rarely have problems or thread breaks.

Of course, I do get the designs digitized for hats specifically in most cases from artworksource.com

[KERRMINATOR]

I know this is showing for a kid's hat....
http://www.fastframes.com/kids_hat.htm

but I thought maybe it would work for adult caps as well, as long as they are the unstructured type. I saw it and thought maybe it would be an alternative (and possibly easier) way of doing the fronts.

[Wayne]

I love caps. I never digitize a logo for a cap. If it sews good on a polo it will sew good on a cap. Caps have to be tight in the frame.
There are some caps (like Kati S113 caps) that are not made to lay flat and will cause you to pull you hair.
For those and unconstructed caps I have a special HEAVY backing I use in them to keep them stable while sewing. I use no backing on most constructed caps.
Yes, I do screw up some caps but it is usually my fault because I get in a hurry at times and put them on a little crooked.

[Laurie]

I don't alter my stuff when I go from Polos to hats, but have heard that sometimes you have to. I might have to tweak something here or there, but for the most part, I have been lucky and things seem to work well.

One thing mentioned here helps a lot and doesn't matter on a polo. I build everything as if I were putting it on a cap; bottom to top / inside to outside ans that sort. makes a BIG difference!

My struggle was when I first started doing hats a couple months ago and litterally fought with my frame for a week!! I couldn't get a hat to hoop and STAY hoop to save my life!! Turned out it was defective and once I had a new frame, all was OK.
NOW, I just hat hats because it seems like it is about 80% of what I do!! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Good Luck!

Laurie

[HH5131]

Ok, here's how I did the design. Maybe I should have taken time to do more, but anyway - I clicked on Complex Fill, then did "custom shape" then "star". My star is 1.3" in size, Fill 4, Density 3, Standard underlay, edgewalk secondary underlay, That's how I did the star.
Then I did my text in the font "Micro Blk LG CP", .43" high, density 4, edgewalk underlay, column width adj 110%, and Pull Comp 1.
I haven't had a problem with hats until now. I don't understand and it's frustrating. The cap is a simple unstructured, low profile cap.
The design looks nice and crisp when sewn out on broadcloth sample material. Help!

[signman]

THe density 3 is way too tight for a hat...loosen it up to 4 or even 4.5. Hats do not take kindly to tight density! And if the lettering is also puckering, change that to 4.5, no edgewalk underlay-the text already has it's own underlay (so I've been told for Melco fonts). But you can try increasing the pull comp to 120.
Takes a little practice...eventually you'll know what type of hats need tweaking-every style of hat is different.

[HH5131]

Thank you. I will try it. I'm not getting any puckering tho, just looks horrible - not smooth, thread breaks, etc.

[HH5131]

Ok, I'm officially giving up. Using too many hats and I ran out. I will just pay to have it digitized and buy more hats.
Thanks for all your suggestions!

[Wayne]

Sounds like you need a good firm backing on the unstructured cap.

[Japhel]

The more I read about caps, the more I don't even want to try it.

[HH5131]

Japhel, I've never had a problem with caps. I've always enjoyed doing them - fun stuff is how I see it. However, this one particular simple design that I created myself that you would think any ding-dong can do beautifuly, gave me problems. It was my designing that obviously didn't work. So, I had it digitized by a professional digitizer. I'm going to sew it out soon.
I am now completing an order of 40 caps (different logo) and they're sewing out beautifully. Go figure!