auto borders on letters

[logomaker]

Has anyone had success with the auto borders feature for letters? If yes, any suggestions you can pass along that I might be missing. My borders just don't look good and have registration problems. Thanks, Chuck

[Dorothy Compton]

I usally increase the width of the border from the default and then I convert to wireframe to fix the messed up bits.

Dorothy

[Rod or Sharon]

I personally do not like "auto borders" for most lettering work. I much prefer to create my own borders by simply holding down the "Shift key" and then left clicking the "Singleline Center" icon at the the same time. The other way to do this is to hi-lite the element in the project tree you wish to have a border around and go to "change element type" , select the type of border you want and click OK....

You now have a border that can be manipulated just as with any satin column without having to wireframe it. You can use the cornering tool to miter or cap the sharp corners, change densities, underlays and the width of the column at will very easily.

Rod Springer
Amaya Tech & Traine

[logomaker]

Thank you both. I gotta use this site more often.

[v-embroidery]

There is a video on how to do borders and two-color lettering at:

http://www.servicewatchsystems.com/Melco%20Design%20Shop%20training%202.htm

[Marcelle]

Ron,

How you you do walk or bean stitch borders around elements?

[Rod or Sharon]

Marcelle,

I am not Ron, but this is where you would hi-lite the element in the project tree, go into properties, select "Change Element Type" and then select the type of border you would want.

The other way is to hi-lite the element in the project tree, hold down the Shift key and left click on either the walk stitch or the bean stitch icon.

In Ver 9, Change Elemet Type is found in Properties, Operations, Change Element Type.

Rod Springer
Amaya Tech & Trainer

[Marcelle]

Thanks for the reply. I have used both of those methods and the walk or bean outlines mostly are too far outside the element. I have tried downsizing the outline which sometimes works OK but often it doesn't seem to downsize the entire outline uniformly.

I was hoping to find out some trick to get good outlines that would not require quite so much adjusting.

Manual entry of outlines is often less time consuming for me than using the auto feature, editing, splitting lines and rearranging outline elements.

Can you provide any advice about getting the outline right on the outside of the element?

Is there some setting that controls this that I don't know about?

[Rod or Sharon]

Marcelle,

The problem you are experiencing is not the fact that the "outline", regardless of whether it is a walk or bean, is too far "outside" of the element. It is the "element" that is pulling away from the outline. When adjusting for outline registration, the element should be adjusted to match the outline not the outline to match the element. For example, a complex fill, if the fill stitch length is set at around 30 points, you will see less pull in the fill then if the stitch length is around 60 points, that is, if all other varibles remain constant.

The longer the stitch the more pull it can exert on the fabric. Of course this is dependent also on the type of fabric you are sewing on with just how much pull you will experience.

What this means is if you add any type of border and the material pulls, the outline, regardless of its type, will now be off registration. Outlines tend to sew exactly as and where they are created to go. This is why you, as a rule of thumb, do not adjust the outline to the element,but adjust the element to the outline for the type of material being sewn on.

Stitch length with walk or bean outlines can make a big difference with registration also. a shorter stitch length will allow the outline to follow the contours of the element better.

As far as settings, outside of what you can do when digitizing the design, In AOS, you have under "Settings", "Threadfeed", that can help with controlling the pull on the fabric. Run/fill speed controls the amount of thread that can be fed to each individual stitch without affecting the stitch length. This helps to keep the embroidery from being pulled so tight on the fabric which decreases pull.

Hooping consistently plays another large part in registration issues.

Machine speed will affect pull. The faster the speed, the more pull you will experience.

So basically, to answer your real question, is there any one trick, no there is not. Just remember, it is the element that is moving away from the outline, not the outline moving away from the element. Controlling that movement is what you really need to work on.

Rod Springer
Amaya Tech & Trainer

[Marcelle]

Rod,

Thank you so much for that explanation. I like 35 for fills and 22 or 23 for walks depending on the design. I will try your suggestions. Sounds like I was doing it exactly backwards.

Thanks again,

[Rod or Sharon]

Marcelle,

You are welcome....the one thing that I failed to mention is the use of Pull Comp. I find this works better with satin columns than with fills most of the time when dealing with outlines.

Satin columns will "narrow up" when sewen, especially on knits. So if adding a border around a satin column, pull comp will just add extra width to the column moving it towards the outline.

Fills treat pull comp much differently. Pull comp "only" affects the fill in the direction of the the stitch. But that also is the directon that the material is being pulled from. Depending on the weave of the cloth, pull comp may or may not work like you want it to in fills making it necessary to adjust the fill manually anyway. Seldom do I use pull comp in fills anymore, but I use it all the time with satin columns.

Density of the fill and/or satin column can have a huge factor in this also...

Normally, I will adjust a design for the garment material and save it with an appropriate file name for that garment. this saves having to re-invent the wheel all the time......

Rod Springer
Amaya Tech & Trainer

[Marcelle]

Rod,

If I adjust the thread feed or pull comp on a satin element how does that save to other formats? I often use my brother/pes format too.

Marcelle

[Rod or Sharon]

Marcelle,

Good question.....I would say that because brother/pes will be saved as an exp type of file, pull comp will undoubtably be saved but because the threadfeed is a tools function of the AOS system, probably not. To be sure, one way or another, you would have to experiment with some files....best answer I can give at this point...

Rod Springer
Amaya Tech & Trainer

[The Embroidery Authority - OLD]

Oh, hey,...
Can I add something to this??
The smaller the lettering you go, the smaller the column's width on that lettering. The smaller the column's width of a satin stitch, the greater the amount of pull you will experience as there won't be a great amount of fabric fibers under the column to support the column's digitized width. (This will sound like Greek to some.. yes I know)
Other factors affecting "pull":
type of backing,
amount of backing,
bobbin tension,
type of hoop used,
amount fabric is stretched in hoop,
OR amount fabric is left floppy in hoop,
loose hoop in hoop arms,
condition of thread feed rollers,
needle size and condition,
density of stitches,
amount of underlay stitches or other stitches sewn prior in design,
speed of machine,
condition of machine (ie: x cable tension, etc...)

So many things to consider when it comes to registration of borders around letters and/or design elements. This is why a good digitizer is worth his or her weight in gold, or at least silver.

Ed Orantes
(Yes, I'm still around.)

[MJ]

So it kind of sounds like no one uses the "Auto Borders" in Design Shop (9, Pro+)? I have been trying to use it and getting all kinds of weird results.
One thing that it always does is change the color I have assigned to the borders! I change the color, save it, exit it, and when I open it, the borders always have a black color that says it's "0,0,0 System". Has anyone else talked to Melco about Auto Borders and bugs associated with it?